Re: i really wanted to vote for mr. trump

by **sadako** October 17th 2015, 7:24 pm

Mac B wrote:Who's to say either is more authentic?
People get qualified for shit they shouldn't all the damn time
Not saying that people don't lie about the skills of others (if you're speaking exclusively of word of mouth) but it usually turns up a lot less if theyre shit at it

well, which is a more necessary degree, objectively? literature or biomedical science? philosophy or electrical engineering? communication or computer science?

by **salty** October 17th 2015, 7:30 pm

we don't "need" anything

we live in the west which is rich enough to allow its citizens to do whatever they want

there is no dearth of engineers, scientists, or engineers in the united states

by **salty** October 17th 2015, 7:30 pm

tomok8r wrote:
Mac B wrote:Who's to say either is more authentic?
People get qualified for shit they shouldn't all the damn time
Not saying that people don't lie about the skills of others (if you're speaking exclusively of word of mouth) but it usually turns up a lot less if theyre shit at it

well, which is a more necessary degree, objectively? literature or biomedical science? philosophy or electrical engineering? communication or computer science?

you cant determine utility without being objective

by **Magician** October 17th 2015, 7:31 pm

tomok8r wrote:
Mac B wrote:Who's to say either is more authentic?
People get qualified for shit they shouldn't all the damn time
Not saying that people don't lie about the skills of others (if you're speaking exclusively of word of mouth) but it usually turns up a lot less if theyre shit at it

well, which is a more necessary degree, objectively? literature or biomedical science?

Are you getting a job in journalism? Then Literature would be better.

tomok8r wrote:philosophy or electrical engineering?

Not sure what jobs philosophy is useful for to be fair but no-one ever said there wasn't useless degrees.

communication or computer science?

Communications would be better for the likes of Radio Operating in the military.

by **salty** October 17th 2015, 7:32 pm

Magician wrote:
tomok8r wrote:
Mac B wrote:Who's to say either is more authentic?
People get qualified for shit they shouldn't all the damn time
Not saying that people don't lie about the skills of others (if you're speaking exclusively of word of mouth) but it usually turns up a lot less if theyre shit at it

well, which is a more necessary degree, objectively? literature or biomedical science?
Are you getting a job in journalism? Then Literature would be better.
tomok8r wrote:philosophy or electrical engineering?
Not sure what jobs philosophy is useful for to be fair but no-one ever said there wasn't useless degrees.
communication or computer science?
Communications would be better for the likes of Radio Operating in the military.

communications degrees in the us usually refer to media communications (broadcasting, film, etc) i believe

by Mac B October 17th 2015, 7:32 pm

and what makes it official? more papers printed by big wigs?
Just cause the fuck cant afford college doesn't mean he's shit at whatever it is he does
what's he gonna do then when he gets the money, waste 8 years on shit he already mostly knows to get a piece of paper telling him he's good at it
and shit, a degree doesnt even garuntee a job
it just says youre good for it if anything
I believe your work should be reflected by your experience -- it doesnt fucking matter what the guy with the paper can do if this jackass can do it doubly better,
What ever happened to having shit to show for your work

by **alyaza** October 17th 2015, 7:33 pm

Magician wrote:Not sure what jobs philosophy is useful for to be fair but no-one ever said there wasn't useless degrees.

philosophy in this day and age is more useful for shit like the stuff alan turing pushed

by **salty** October 17th 2015, 7:34 pm

Mac B wrote:and what makes it official? more papers printed by big wigs?
Just cause the fuck cant afford college doesn't mean he's shit at whatever it is he does
what's he gonna do then when he gets the money, waste 8 years on shit he already mostly knows to get a piece of paper telling him he's good at it
and shit, a degree doesnt even garuntee a job
it just says youre good for it if anything
I believe your work should be reflected by your experience -- it doesnt fucking matter what the guy with the paper can do if this jackass can do it doubly better,
What ever happened to having shit to show for your work

i guarantee that i know nothing about engineering or any of my other hobbies compared to a graduate student doing an internship at nasa dont start with conspiracy nonsense about the value of college

keep in mind that college also exists for the opportunity to gain that experience and also to work with others - if you dont make connections and gain real world experience with your education if possible then you are probably not making the best of your college experience

by **salty** October 17th 2015, 7:35 pm

viubladan wrote:
Magician wrote:Not sure what jobs philosophy is useful for to be fair but no-one ever said there wasn't useless degrees.
philosophy in this day and age is more useful for shit like the stuff alan turing pushed

philosophy and computer science arent exactly similar fields so explain what you mean

by **alyaza** October 17th 2015, 7:39 pm

Mac B wrote:and what makes it official? more papers printed by big wigs?
Just cause the fuck cant afford college doesn't mean he's shit at whatever it is he does

what makes it more official is that it certifies that you succeeded and graduated from a curriculum which contained everything which you need to know about what you're going into. it proves you are actually capable of doing what you need to do. there is no big-wig shit involved here. oh and actually no, chances are he is pretty shit at whatever it is he does if he didn't go through the curriculum.

what's he gonna do then when he gets the money, waste 8 years on shit he already mostly knows to get a piece of paper telling him he's good at it

he is going to get the satisfaction of actually getting a job because he proved he is actually capable of doing the work he wants to do, unlike johnny nobody over there on the street corner who only has his word to back up his claim that he can TOTALLY DO THAT BIG RIG WORK OUT THERE IN THE GULF OF MEXICO, REALLY GUYS!!

and shit, a degree doesnt even garuntee a job

no it doesn't but at least you have a fucking chance at getting a job instead of johnny nobody who at best can maybe hope for a managerial position at the local fast food joint if they're being particularly generous about who they're hiring at the time

it just says youre good for it if anything

yes, and that is the point

I believe your work should be reflected by your experience -- it doesnt fucking matter what the guy with the paper can do if this jackass can do it doubly better,
What ever happened to having shit to show for your work

it often is, nerd. try bolstering your resume with a bunch of volunteer work in things that relate to your desired field of work, and see how quickly people want to hire you. i guarantee you'll be a prime candidate for the job almost every time.

by **alyaza** October 17th 2015, 7:40 pm

oaky wrote:
viubladan wrote:
Magician wrote:Not sure what jobs philosophy is useful for to be fair but no-one ever said there wasn't useless degrees.
philosophy in this day and age is more useful for shit like the stuff alan turing pushed
philosophy and computer science arent exactly similar fields so explain what you mean

turing originally theorized the turing test as a part of a paper for a philosophical journal

by **salty** October 17th 2015, 7:42 pm

viubladan wrote:
oaky wrote:
viubladan wrote:
Magician wrote:Not sure what jobs philosophy is useful for to be fair but no-one ever said there wasn't useless degrees.
philosophy in this day and age is more useful for shit like the stuff alan turing pushed
philosophy and computer science arent exactly similar fields so explain what you mean
turing originally theorized the turing test as a part of a paper for a philosophical journal

im pretty sure his turing machine concept was based entirely from his foundation in CS given that he was never educated in philosophy

by **Magician** October 17th 2015, 7:42 pm

Mac B wrote:and what makes it official? more papers printed by big wigs?

Literally yes.

Mac B wrote:
Just cause the fuck cant afford college doesn't mean he's shit at whatever it is he does

That's true but official qualifications is always better proof.

Mac B wrote:
what's he gonna do then when he gets the money, waste 8 years on shit he already mostly knows to get a piece of paper telling him he's good at it

Try and get the mileage out of his qualifications

Mac B wrote:
and shit, a degree doesnt even garuntee a job

Not getting a degree doesn't guarantee a job either but getting one increases your odds.

Mac B wrote:
it just says youre good for it if anything

That's the point.

Mac B wrote:
I believe your work should be reflected by your experience -- it doesnt fucking matter what the guy with the paper can do if this jackass can do it doubly better,
What ever happened to having shit to show for your work

Like I said most college courses require you to get experience in the field your studying anyway.
Also, you think college graduates have a tough time getting work experience? Imagine how hard getting experience would be for someone who doesn't even have the qualifications for the field he is working in.

by **alyaza** October 17th 2015, 7:43 pm

oaky wrote:
viubladan wrote:
oaky wrote:
viubladan wrote:
Magician wrote:Not sure what jobs philosophy is useful for to be fair but no-one ever said there wasn't useless degrees.
philosophy in this day and age is more useful for shit like the stuff alan turing pushed
philosophy and computer science arent exactly similar fields so explain what you mean
turing originally theorized the turing test as a part of a paper for a philosophical journal
im pretty sure his turing machine concept was based entirely from his foundation in CS given that he was never educated in philosophy

"Computing Machinery and Intelligence", written by Alan Turing and published in 1950 in Mind [a philosophical journal], is a seminal paper on the topic of artificial intelligence in which the concept of what is now known as the Turing test was introduced to a wide audience.

by **salty** October 17th 2015, 7:45 pm

its definitely not a good example to support the humanities since he was never educated in philosophy

by **alyaza** October 17th 2015, 7:47 pm

oaky wrote:its definitely not a good example to support the humanities since he was never educated in philosophy

i dunno bro i'm pretty sure that 'Can machines think?' is a pretty philosophical question

by **salty** October 17th 2015, 7:53 pm

viubladan wrote:
oaky wrote:its definitely not a good example to support the humanities since he was never educated in philosophy
i dunno bro i'm pretty sure that 'Can machines think?' is a pretty philosophical question

which he was able to come to without earning a philosophy degree so this is the worst example you could use to talk about how philosophy degrees aren't worthless

by Mac B October 17th 2015, 7:53 pm

Nonetheless, with how college is trumped up and not to mention the expenses, an honest man can barely make a living off his passion if he cant afford college
And certainly, college does provide real-world xp and connections, but so does working on the job, if at a smaller level.
And I'm not saying an amateur code monkey should be entrusted in programming a physics engine for a 3D game being developed by Bethesda, which is why working your way to the top is a thing.
Lets say this amateur code monkey progessively builds his skill over 15 years of working with different studios and has never went to college, but has made popularly notable and admirable shit-- he should be able to get a job based on gis experience and ability to do so

But people are locked out of these opportunities of on-the-job training (usually at least with some prior xo) because they dont have a goddamn degree, so the whole scenario i just described potentially couldnt have happened at all because in those first years no one would take him despite his experience

by **salty** October 17th 2015, 7:54 pm

Mac B wrote:Nonetheless, with how college is trumped up and not to mention the expenses, an honest man can barely make a living off his passion if he cant afford college
And certainly, college does provide real-world xp and connections, but so does working on the job, if at a smaller level.
And I'm not saying an amateur code monkey should be entrusted in programming a physics engine for a 3D game being developed by Bethesda, which is why working your way to the top is a thing.
Lets say this amateur code monkey progessively builds his skill over 15 years of working with different studios and has never went to college, but has made popularly notable and admirable shit-- he should be able to get a job based on gis experience and ability to do so

But people are locked out of these opportunities of on-the-job training (usually at least with some prior xo) because they dont have a goddamn degree, so the whole scenario i just described potentially couldnt have happened at all because in those first years no one would take him despite his experience

someone wont take you if you have experience but no education because there is always someone with experience AND an education

by **Magician** October 17th 2015, 7:58 pm

Mac B wrote:Nonetheless, with how college is trumped up and not to mention the expenses, an honest man can barely make a living off his passion if he cant afford college

Which means the Government should work to lower the costs.
I can go to college for free next year.

Mac B wrote:
And certainly, college does provide real-world xp and connections, but so does working on the job, if at a smaller level.

Yes but how are you going to get that job without the qualifications?

Mac B wrote:
And I'm not saying an amateur code monkey should be entrusted in programming a physics engine for a 3D game being developed by Bethesda, which is why working your way to the top is a thing.

Entry level positions with possibility for advancement to well paid jobs require qualifications.

Mac B wrote:
Lets say this amateur code monkey progessively builds his skill over 15 years of working with different studios and has never went to college, but has made popularly notable and admirable shit-- he should be able to get a job based on gis experience and ability to do so
But people are locked out of these opportunities of on-the-job training (usually at least with some prior xo) because they dont have a goddamn degree, so the whole scenario i just described potentially couldnt have happened at all because in those first years no one would take him despite his experience

Yes so that means Tertiary level education needs to be made more accessible, yes?

by Mac B October 17th 2015, 8:03 pm

"someone wont take you if you have experience but no education because there is always someone with experience AND an education"
That's the goddamn point though! Not everyone can afford the education, but that shouldn't disqualify them if they're hard workers and know what they're doing

by **salty** October 17th 2015, 8:05 pm

Mac B wrote:"someone wont take you if you have experience but no education because there is always someone with experience AND an education"
That's the goddamn point though! Not everyone can afford the education, but that shouldn't disqualify them if they're hard workers and know what they're doing

the person with the education and experience is probably better suited for the job

by **salty** October 17th 2015, 8:05 pm

going through and surviving school is an important experience all its own

by **alyaza** October 17th 2015, 8:08 pm

Mac B wrote:That's the goddamn point though! Not everyone can afford the education, but that shouldn't disqualify them if they're hard workers and know what they're doing

the trouble with doing this though is that the very minor difference in work ability can have absolutely disastrous effects in fields like engineering. in fields like that, you want to make sure that these people are as qualified as they physically can be so that the possibility of a catastrophe is as minimized as possible, and implementing what you're suggesting here would work against that

by **Magician** October 17th 2015, 8:10 pm

Mac B wrote:"someone wont take you if you have experience but no education because there is always someone with experience AND an education"
That's the goddamn point though! Not everyone can afford the education, but that shouldn't disqualify them if they're hard workers and know what they're doing

Which means college education needs to be made more accessible.
People with the better qualifications will win 9/10, that's just reality.

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