manifesto for a new socialist organization that i've been working on for some guys at /leftypol/

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Wi3kIlpV6HkW3ijgJTSLlIkKJT9eXSks233M2eczBkY/edit?usp=sharing

don't bother trying to vandalize it

hey op can i ask the 17 year old what hes done to help the world?

one of the reasons i ask is because i always see hippies and pinkos talking about how they respect the world and shit but who's the one getting their hands dirty picking up discarded trash and food and sorting it into the correct receptacle? never seen them do it

every time i walk by some hippie place like sprouts or whole foods or some other inferior (non-GMO) food bazaar i see yippie reds walking by trash they could be picking up but theyre too lazy and self absorbed to contribute - as long as they keep thinking theyre saving the world by supporting an inferior industry thats all they need to do for the day!

so basically what im telling you fd is pick up trash and you can start with your manifesto

"The worker's hours are too long, his rights are too few, his masters too cruel and his wages too low"
off to a good start with a double headed demonization and generalization of every job ever

this is some seriously gay shit OP

"Capitalism isn't justifiable or even a necessary evil any more"
Look! I can switch a word and it has the same effect!
"Communism isn't justifiable or even a necessary evil any more"

And yet absurd amounts of products go to waste, natural resources and land aren't being used efficiently, the rich are richer than ever, and we're at a fraction of what we could be using in renewable energy. Capitalism isn't justifiable or even a necessary evil any more- it is technologically outmoded, unfair, unnecessary and not our best option.

citation needed, this can be easily solved within the confines of capitalism (see trust busting, tax raising, etc.), will resolve itself and is not true anyways, citation needed, citation needed

don't even need to read more honestly this says it all

" socialism as envisioned by socialists, not English teachers reading Animal Farm and 1984, by George Orwell, who was himself a socialist, criticizing Stalin’s regime in Animal Farm and the West in 1984."
your definition of socialism put in practice would lead to the very things george orwell criticized

rt wrote:don't even need to read more honestly this says it all

Oh no no no no no, this is fresh meat my friend, lets cut into this like a scalpel to brain

These include creating and supporting cooperative and self-employed businesses, boycotting, spreading word about capitalism and socialism, favoring local, small, decentralized government and enterprise, endorsing candidates, reducing reliance on capitalism, and other forms of activism.

hey FD i'm just curious how you intend for this to work seeing as most self-employed businesses are inherently capitalist by nature, boycotts will do absolutely shit all since your biggest 'offenders' are megacorps whose profit margins are so massive your boycotts would literally be within margins of error, even young people realize socialism is kind of dumb, small enterprises definitely do not want a socialist system in place, a true socialist hasn't gotten a significant amount of political traction since eugene debs, everything in the west is dependent upon capitalism, and your activism is meaningless because nobody cares what you think

"We will not rebrand, because we don't need to hide our agenda under more palatable words."
Very true, you don't need to hide it - now people know what not to pick up at Barnes n Nobles without sifting through the first 20 pages of "A Criticism on the modern socioeconomic ethics of the American government" to know it's commie yellowpaper

FUDGIEFIGHTERIA wrote:

These include creating and supporting cooperative and self-employed businesses, boycotting, spreading word about capitalism and socialism, favoring local, small, decentralized government and enterprise, endorsing candidates, reducing reliance on capitalism, and other forms of activism.

hey FD i'm just curious how you intend for this to work seeing as most self-employed businesses are inherently capitalist by nature, boycotts will do absolutely shit all since your biggest 'offenders' are megacorps whose profit margins are so massive your boycotts would literally be within margins of error, even young people realize socialism is kind of dumb, small enterprises definitely do not want a socialist system in place, a true socialist hasn't gotten a significant amount of political traction since eugene debs, everything in the west is dependent upon capitalism, and your activism is meaningless because nobody cares what you think

Self employed businesses . . . Reducing reliance on capitalism
not contradictory at all!

Yeah your activism is basically vanity at this point. There's no merit in "boycotting" a company, using the phrase boycott at all is implicit of vanity itself - If you don't want to buy from a company, don't, but don't make it out to be you're starting some kind of revolution by not buying from a company.

"Political elites all over the world have assigned the failures of capitalism to the laziness of workers, or the moral degradation of society"
citation needed
i dont think when the stock market crashed white collars were shouting at the blues like "THIS IS ALL YOUR FAULT!" -Whip crack- "WORK HARDER OR NO MONEY FOR ANYONE!!!!"

Who makes Puerto Ricans frown?
Who keeps the hippie drifters down?
We do, we do!

Who keeps the commies off the map?
Who gives those dirty Japs a slap?
We do, we do!

Who holds back the red Marxist flow?
Who nukes the island of - Puerto Rico?
We do, we do!

Who invades the Bay of Pigs?
Who makes FD mad like stgggs?
We do! We do!

to the tune of this

i like how OP cries about how capitalism is so bad for everybody because of crashes and shit when life in the soviet union which had a pseudo-socialist society and a planned economy was by most metrics absolute shit and according to some metrics caused itself to have roughly two times less per capita income than it should have when it finally dissolved

any mistake in capitalism has an inverse in, and therefore can be replicated in communism
making your system of govt. "Not-capitalism" doesn't mean it's free of mistakes - the very notion would be laughable. What if workers in a communist society strike/rebel due to unsavory political atmosphere and threatening of rights? History says those people would be killed or put in camps

oh and let's not forget venezuela which is currently run by a socialist party and has been doing pretty well, except for the part where their attempts at running things in an even vaguely socialist way have resulted in massive economic troubles that have absolutely fucked over the people and subsequently have caused massive political unrest and a surge in the crime rates including the currently highest murder rate in the world

FUDGIEFIGHTERIA wrote:oh and let's not forget venezuela which is currently run by a socialist party and has been doing pretty well, except for the part where their attempts at running things in an even vaguely socialist way have resulted in massive economic troubles that have absolutely fucked over the people and subsequently have caused massive political unrest and a surge in the crime rates including the currently highest murder rate in the world

wikipurrdia wrote:Crime in Venezuela is widespread, with violent crimes such as murder and kidnapping often increasing annually. The United Nations has attributed crime to the poor political and economic environment in the country, which has the second highest murder rate in the world.

When you try to save those pitiful brownies from an evil capitalist system but end up fucking them over and putting them in a worse position
Who wants to play "sexual torture in a socialist state"?

there's also laos i guess which is a really nice place to live, except for that part where laos has one of the lowest per capita incomes in the world (one third of the population lives below the international poverty line of $1.25 a day), is one of the most corrupt countries in the world, and is one of the fifty hungriest countries in the world

in fact, literally the only even remotely appealing modern state with any semblance of a truly socialist government is vietnam, but vietnam is functionally a capitalist state at this point and still has a metric shit ton of issues, like a low nominal GDP, a lack of sanitary water, a functionally one state government with a shitty human rights record, and large-scale income inequality

and that of course doesn't cover all the formerly socialist states, such as the amazingly successful states of:
democratic kampuchea (cambodia)
afghanistan
angola
ethopia
north korea
mozambique
somalia
south yemen
and yugoslavia

noticing a trend?

ethiopia somalia more like home of the angry pirateer apes that live in filth and poverty

let us never forget that Nazi rule was a NATIONAL-SOCIALIST rule

oaky wrote:hey op can i ask the 17 year old what hes done to help the world?

oaky wrote:one of the reasons i ask is because i always see hippies and pinkos talking about how they respect the world and shit but who's the one getting their hands dirty picking up discarded trash and food and sorting it into the correct receptacle? me

every time i walk by some hippie place like sprouts or whole foods or some other inferior (non-GMO) food bazaar i see yippie reds walking by trash they could be picking up but theyre too lazy and self absorbed to contribute - as long as they keep thinking theyre saving the world by supporting an inferior industry thats all they need to do for the day!

oaky wrote:so basically what im telling you fd is pick up trash and you can start with your manifesto

well in public spaces it's hard to tell what someone else is being paid to pick up. if i brought hand sanitizer everywhere i'd pick trash up more than i do, i don't make it a habit but i do do it sometimes. see i actually can not stand things like wet paper and bloody tissues. but i've had to clean up in front of my grandma's house before because she lives off the highway close to where people pull over to get on the phone or change their baby's diaper and people will just leave their kfc buckets and diapers and newspapers and shit plus i think some of it blows in from somewhere else but that was with help and only a little bit, maybe if i went around with a trash picker i'd tolerate it more
i've done community service just not trash in specific. boy scouts, packing food and christmas presents, etc.
i get your point though there are tons of armchair activists who are waiting for someone to take initiative for them

Congo Jack wrote:"The worker's hours are too long, his rights are too few, his masters too cruel and his wages too low"
off to a good start with a double headed demonization and generalization of every job ever

it's not about every job ever it's about the average job and working conditions being shit is undisputable

FUDGIEFIGHTERIA wrote:this is some seriously gay shit OP

from you that's a compliment

Congo Jack wrote:"Capitalism isn't justifiable or even a necessary evil any more"
Look! I can switch a word and it has the same effect!
"Communism isn't justifiable or even a necessary evil any more"

the difference is that capitalism apologists often go "well this is the best system we know even though it's flawed" which would make it a necessary evil when confronted with its failings whereas no significant problems with cooperative business have emerged

FUDGIEFIGHTERIA wrote:

And yet absurd amounts of products go to waste, natural resources and land aren't being used efficiently, the rich are richer than ever, and we're at a fraction of what we could be using in renewable energy. Capitalism isn't justifiable or even a necessary evil any more- it is technologically outmoded, unfair, unnecessary and not our best option.

citation needed, this can be easily solved within the confines of capitalism (see trust busting, tax raising, etc.), will resolve itself and is not true anyways, citation needed, citation needed

don't even need to read more honestly this says it all

https://www.google.com/search?q=world+hunger+and+food+waste&espv=2&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjUhdiGn6jRAhUC9IMKHTj3AewQ_AUICSgC&biw=1366&bih=638#imgrc=mxHFF1A5hdqK5M%3A
http://www.ucsusa.org/news/press_release/inefficiencies-in-global-land-use-0382.html#.WGzKhVUrLIU
you know programmers like to talk about the difference in between a hack and a fix. a hack involves writing more code that tells a program not to do X, usually creating more problems in the process. a fix involves going into the program, finding why it's doing X, and changing it so it no longer does X at a fundamental level. it's the same thing with capitalism, raising taxes will have adverse effects and hedge fund managers will move on
like hell it's going to "resolve itself" we have a president who doesn't even believe in climate change

Congo Jack wrote:" socialism as envisioned by socialists, not English teachers reading Animal Farm and 1984, by George Orwell, who was himself a socialist, criticizing Stalin’s regime in Animal Farm and the West in 1984."
your definition of socialism put in practice would lead to the very things george orwell criticized

oh is that why george orwell was a socialist? his books weren't about socialism they were about democratic centralism and western patriot/permanent war politics

Congo Jack wrote:

rt wrote:don't even need to read more honestly this says it all

Oh no no no no no, this is fresh meat my friend, lets cut into this like a scalpel to brain

k

FUDGIEFIGHTERIA wrote:

These include creating and supporting cooperative and self-employed businesses, boycotting, spreading word about capitalism and socialism, favoring local, small, decentralized government and enterprise, endorsing candidates, reducing reliance on capitalism, and other forms of activism.

hey FD i'm just curious how you intend for this to work seeing as most self-employed businesses are inherently capitalist by nature, boycotts will do absolutely shit all since your biggest 'offenders' are megacorps whose profit margins are so massive your boycotts would literally be within margins of error, even young people realize socialism is kind of dumb, small enterprises definitely do not want a socialist system in place, a true socialist hasn't gotten a significant amount of political traction since eugene debs, everything in the west is dependent upon capitalism, and your activism is meaningless because nobody cares what you think

markets/=/capitalism
obviously boycotting walmart does jack shit but i still do it because i can't stand the thought of giving the walls a single penny. maybe if a significant percentage of the country does it. look at seaworld.
"even young people realize socialism is kind of dumb" blatantly false
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/rampage/wp/2016/02/05/millennials-have-a-higher-opinion-of-socialism-than-of-capitalism/?utm_term=.530507ad1bb7
and this is the meme version where "socialism is when the government does stuff and when the more stuff it does the more socialister it is", now imagine what they would think of actual socialism
"small enterprises definitely do not want a socialist system in place" depends on the small enterprise and honestly a lot of them are petit-bourg and fuck them
bernie sanders is a true socialist he just didn't talk about it precisely because nobody understands it which is what we're here for
"everything in the west is dependent upon capitalism," you got it kiddo
"and your activism is meaningless because nobody cares what you think" this is literally one of the criticisms everyone interested in the new group thinks about the existing groups that they do pointless shit like protest the republican national convention that doesn't change anything other than let some smashies get their panties unbunched the idea is to make people care

Congo Jack wrote:"We will not rebrand, because we don't need to hide our agenda under more palatable words."
Very true, you don't need to hide it - now people know what not to pick up at Barnes n Nobles without sifting through the first 20 pages of "A Criticism on the modern socioeconomic ethics of the American government" to know it's commie yellowpaper

kool

Congo Jack wrote:

FUDGIEFIGHTERIA wrote:

These include creating and supporting cooperative and self-employed businesses, boycotting, spreading word about capitalism and socialism, favoring local, small, decentralized government and enterprise, endorsing candidates, reducing reliance on capitalism, and other forms of activism.

hey FD i'm just curious how you intend for this to work seeing as most self-employed businesses are inherently capitalist by nature, boycotts will do absolutely shit all since your biggest 'offenders' are megacorps whose profit margins are so massive your boycotts would literally be within margins of error, even young people realize socialism is kind of dumb, small enterprises definitely do not want a socialist system in place, a true socialist hasn't gotten a significant amount of political traction since eugene debs, everything in the west is dependent upon capitalism, and your activism is meaningless because nobody cares what you think

Self employed businesses . . . Reducing reliance on capitalism
 not contradictory at all!

Yeah your activism is basically vanity at this point. There's no merit in "boycotting" a company, using the phrase boycott at all is implicit of vanity itself - If you don't want to buy from a company, don't, but don't make it out to be you're starting some kind of revolution by not buying from a company.

yeah my dude no matter how many times i explain it to you you still think capitalism is a market economy, if you're self employed you own everything owned by the business which is socialism

the boycotting is minor. the real thing is doing the kind of work the ufw used to do like building houses for sharecroppers, empowering people to be more self-reliant and community-reliant and starving the wall street beast, especially spreading word

Congo Jack wrote:"Political elites all over the world have assigned the failures of capitalism to the laziness of workers, or the moral degradation of society"
citation needed
i dont think when the stock market crashed white collars were shouting at the blues like "THIS IS ALL YOUR FAULT!" -Whip crack- "WORK HARDER OR NO MONEY FOR ANYONE!!!!"

well i didn't write that but those were just examples of things people have blamed for various things, i know "lazy workers" have been blamed for the auto industry and unemployment

oaky wrote:Who makes Puerto Ricans frown?
Who keeps the hippie drifters down?
We do, we do!

Who keeps the commies off the map?
Who gives those dirty Japs a slap?
We do, we do!

Who holds back the red Marxist flow?
Who nukes the island of - Puerto Rico?
We do, we do!

Who invades the Bay of Pigs?
Who makes FD mad like stgggs?
We do! We do!

to the tune of this

kek

FUDGIEFIGHTERIA wrote:i like how OP cries about how capitalism is so bad for everybody because of crashes and shit when life in the soviet union which had a pseudo-socialist society and a planned economy was by most metrics absolute shit and according to some metrics caused itself to have roughly two times less per capita income than it should have when it finally dissolved

this isn't an argument no matter how badly you wish it was

plus income mattered less because more was free and that was after its economy started tanking due to reforms

Congo Jack wrote:any mistake in capitalism has an inverse in, and therefore can be replicated in communism
making your system of govt. "Not-capitalism" doesn't mean it's free of mistakes - the very notion would be laughable. What if workers in a communist society strike/rebel due to unsavory political atmosphere and threatening of rights? History says those people would be killed or put in camps

capitalism and communism aren't actually opposites on anything but a business level, social organization can go any way from there
in a "fully communist" society as described by marx there'd be no state to do the repressing

FUDGIEFIGHTERIA wrote:oh and let's not forget venezuela which is currently run by a socialist party and has been doing pretty well, except for the part where their attempts at running things in an even vaguely socialist way have resulted in massive economic troubles that have absolutely fucked over the people and subsequently have caused massive political unrest and a surge in the crime rates including the currently highest murder rate in the world

no, their problem was not taking their money from the oil bubble and putting it in infrastructure, instead they kept putting it in oil so they could, the thought was, make even more money. they basically did what bender did in futurama where he wins billions at a casino and goes for trillions and fails instead of just going home

plus like 10% of their economy is socialized. so

Congo Jack wrote:

FUDGIEFIGHTERIA wrote:oh and let's not forget venezuela which is currently run by a socialist party and has been doing pretty well, except for the part where their attempts at running things in an even vaguely socialist way have resulted in massive economic troubles that have absolutely fucked over the people and subsequently have caused massive political unrest and a surge in the crime rates including the currently highest murder rate in the world

wikipurrdia wrote:Crime in Venezuela is widespread, with violent crimes such as murder and kidnapping often increasing annually. The United Nations has attributed crime to the poor political and economic environment in the country, which has the second highest murder rate in the world.

When you try to save those pitiful brownies from an evil capitalist system but end up fucking them over and putting them in a worse position
Who wants to play "sexual torture in a socialist state"?

lol the OVV the group that provides the first report is a propaganda operation run by american universities the idea that crime rates are going up because of "hunger" and not just general discontentment to anyone who knows about anything going on in venezuela is absurd

FUDGIEFIGHTERIA wrote:there's also laos i guess which is a really nice place to live, except for that part where laos has one of the lowest per capita incomes in the world (one third of the population lives below the international poverty line of $1.25 a day), is one of the most corrupt countries in the world, and is one of the fifty hungriest countries in the world

still not an argument and per capita income is still a bad figure

FUDGIEFIGHTERIA wrote:in fact, literally the only even remotely appealing modern state with any semblance of a truly socialist government is vietnam, but vietnam is functionally a capitalist state at this point and still has a metric shit ton of issues, like a low nominal GDP, a lack of sanitary water, a functionally one state government with a shitty human rights record, and large-scale income inequality

still not an argument and gdp is even worse because it doesn't include services or monetary transfers

FUDGIEFIGHTERIA wrote:and that of course doesn't cover all the formerly socialist states, such as the amazingly successful states of:
democratic kampuchea (cambodia)
afghanistan
angola
ethopia
north korea
mozambique
somalia
south yemen
and yugoslavia

noticing a trend?

yeah i actually am most of them made the mistake of choosing marxist-leninist organization and affiliation with russia
mozambique and angola are still partially socialist
ethiopia was coopted by a military coup
north korea was never democratic and thus never socialist
somalia fell over at the same time the soviet union did
south yemen was an actual satellite state of the soviet union
yugoslavia only fell apart because of serbia being a dick

now how bout:
makhnovia
independent hungarian soviet republic
free socialist republic of germany
autonomous shinmin (i'll be fair we still know almost nothing about this one)
EZLN-occupied chiapas
rojava
catalonia
kerala under nambooripad
san marino under 
hungarian revolution
kampuchea after pol pot
people's republic of grenada
sankara's burkina faso
prague spring
seychelles under france-albert rene
allende's chile
yugoslavia

notice how on somalia's page on form of government it says "Government: Marxist–Leninist one-party state
" because communism itself is neither a form of government nor totalitarian

Congo Jack wrote:ethiopia somalia more like home of the angry pirateer apes that live in filth and poverty

more like endgame anarchocapitalism

Congo Jack wrote:let us never forget that Nazi rule was a NATIONAL-SOCIALIST rule

hitler said that the word socialism had been co-opted by russians and that he was giving it back to the aryan race in an interview

isn't it nice how fascists and liberal centrists always band together to repel the communist tide?